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[ • /dir//qu//cyoa//erp//monster//his//wh40k/ • ]

File: 1442434982695-0.png (62.51 KB, 225x225, 1:1, scg.png)

File: 1442434982699-1.jpg (119.48 KB, 414x576, 23:32, InQuest.jpg)

File: 1442434982702-2.jpg (31.63 KB, 223x310, 223:310, long.jpg)

File: 1442434982703-3.jpg (484.27 KB, 1240x826, 620:413, Prosperous Bloom.jpg)

 No.171333[Last 50 Posts]

As with any game, there are bound to be cheaters. Over the years, countless tricks and strategies have been developed to both cheat, and combat cheating. Sometimes, the science behind cheating is amazing, other times its as simple as buying a card.

Further are sharks. Sharks are people in the scene for a profit. The terms originates in the 60's when early baseball cards started to become big bucks, a shark would pick one (or multiples) up for cheap from the unweary, and then move them for a profit. In M:tG being a shark usually means ripping of a child/new/returning player (small time), or buying in bulk to create an artificial scarcity (big time).

Here, in this thread, we will talk about the biggest cheaters, sharks, and incidents in M:tG history.

While I'm unsure where to start, I think I'll start w/ the most noted and famous case of cheating to ever grace MtG. Mike Long was a player whose name was very famous in the 90's. He had successfully designed and piloted the first (successful) combo deck back when net decking involved pretty much going to your friends house and seeing his deck.

Now, he was famous for being, well, an aggressive ass. Many things he did wouldn't fly at a professional level event now, such as trash talking, aggressive shuffling, among other things. He was also, in no lie, a legitimately good player, though he has two particularly interesting stories against him.

For those too new, Pros/Bloom worked by essentially drawing and discarding your hand for mana, using "Cadaverous Bloom" and "Squandered resources" to generate mana, drawing your deck out w/ multiple Impulses and Prosperity, before finally killing your opponent with an epic sized Drain Life. Most decks, which were typically agro at the time, couldn't compete, and it led to many things.

In Pro Tour Paris, Long faced off in the finals against Mark Justice (remember this name), with one turn left, Long discarded his only Drain Life, drew the contents of his deck, showed his hand, rolled a natural 20 on bluff, and claimed he won the game, asking if Justice wanted him to play it out.

Justice, unsure of the contents of Longs deck, and unaware he discarded the DL, decided to go to game two. He would lose game 3, and the tournament to Long.

While not cheating by any definitions of the rule, the question of fair play and sportsmenship had always followed the story with a bit of controversy. Mike Long designed (and too show his popularity, was shown about to be killed), in the card art of Rootwater Thief.

The next year, Long was caught with a key card (Cadaverous Bloom) on his lap, and only got a game lost, went on to win the Match, placed second in the event, then retire for a couple of years. To this day, he claims it was an accident and he didn't cheat.

In 2000, Long came back to design a second deck, called "Long.dec", which was also a combo deck that basically would wish for Yawgmoth's Win, and then combo off into a epic sized Tendrils. He continued to go to events until it was realized he wasn't sufficiently randomizing his decks. He received a month ban, and retired again. In 2005 he was nominated for the M:tG hall of fame by MaRo, but didn't get in due to the controversy surrounding him. Legend has it he has a life time ban, but no, he now owns a store in Virginia, and short of an appearance in the 2014 documentary "I came to Game", has had little to do w/ the MtG community at large.

>Pictured

Scg

The Pirate Cover of Inquest (fuck yeah)

>Card mentioned w/ Long's image

>Prosperous Bloom, the deck Long invented

 No.171379

>>171333

What is the sneakiest and hardest to catch method of cheating that you have seen before?


 No.171390

File: 1442439389121.gif (954.06 KB, 330x220, 3:2, 1405764000170.gif)

>Mike Long

I love how Maro makes excuses for this guy every time he gets a chance, but WotC bans people for communicating in a language the judge can't understand or proposing a dice roll when a draw eliminates both players.


 No.171472

File: 1442447098156.jpg (50.78 KB, 308x347, 308:347, 1-Mark-Justice.jpg)

>>171379

Rules lawyering

>>171390

He has some merit, he did invent some pretty awesome decks, and he was the Quintessential Johnny of his day.

>>171333

Speaking of Mark Justice, and buying cards. In 1997, Mark Justice was in a Tempest draft event. He drafted three Muscle Slivers, but claimed he did four. He then went to a vendor and bought a fourth Muscle Sliver.

Things went ok, until his third opponent noticed the hue of the one sliver was different from the rest. Judge call, and things unraveled.

When asked about it, he admitted to buying it, but the replace a pack damaged sliver he threw out. The judges ordered him to either find it, or to leave, in which he did. He continued to appear at events until 1999.

>Alex Bertoncini serial cheater! Coming up next!


 No.171474

>>171333

I thought it was Necropotence + cadaverous bloom that ruled the black summer. Was prosbloom better than it?


 No.171482

>>171474

Pros/bloom dominated what would eventually be called Type 2 Standard. Necropotence wasn't legal then.


 No.171958

File: 1442513047113.jpg (42.91 KB, 515x327, 515:327, alex.jpg)

>>171472

Drew Levin is an SJW, Mike Long, a cheater of epic proportions, Mark Rosewater, a jew. Compared to Alex Bertoncini, these are all assets to possess. Alex Bertonici has been banned more time, and for more reasons, then anyone else playing MtG, current or past.

Sower of Temptation. Who needs a side board?

In 2010, Alex was in an event where he cheated on round 3. He was running mono-blue 'folk, and his opponent was running a multicolored reanimator. His opponent reanimated in the early game a Platinum Angel, and despite some trash talk, Alex had no answer to it in the deck once it was in play. He eventually 'drew' a Sower of Temptation, casted it, stole the angel (his opponent was at -16) and won the game.

Right before his opponent was going to swing lethal with a 7/11 Inkwell Leviathan.

Now, the issue is, his opponent didn't have three Sower's in the main deck, or any. 4 Kira's, plenty of counterspells, no Sowers. It appears that Alex put the card deliberately in his main, at game one, to deal with the Platinum.

He claimed that he simply forgot to de-side, and was left with a warning, and most of the community bought it, with suspicion.

>The Kira cheat.

In 2011, Alex cheated when he bounced a Kira, the Great Glasspinner to his hand, that was suppose to die.

In the game, his opponent targeted Kira with Jace, the Wallet Sculptor, and as par Kira's effect, got bounced. He then targeted it with Cursed Scroll, instead of killing it, Alex bounced it to hand. The game went on, Alex won, but at that point a spectator notified a judge, which caused an investigation. SCG continued the tournament. Alex Bertoncini went on to win the tournament, but was actually denied prize support by Scarcity Games, and was put on a temporary ban.

He proceeded to lose the match, and the tournament, anyway.

>Magic's Greatest Explorer.

The ironic part of this was, while this tournament was going on, he was already under investigation for an event that happened at SCG Open back in November that year, when on turn 2, he played explore, dropped land 3, passes turn. Drops land four next turn, preordains, explores, then says "two explores?" his opponent nods, and he plays a 6th land.

He never concerns himself with the other player, nor the man filming, and when caught, the other player actually defends him insisting the game state is right.

>Levin vs Bertonici: Two Evils clash!

In a game between Levin and Bertonici, Alex Bertonici player a Merrow Reejey with Aether Vial, and swung with all. Drew pointed out that Reejer just came into play, and made a judge call, despite a 'we cool, we don't need a judge between friends, we'll just back up". Judge comes, issues a warning, and Alex asked if it can be downgraded to a caution (warnings go on your record, cautions don't).

A number of other, less sustainable incidents of cheating include

>Was Thoughtseized to find 8 cards in opening hand, got a warning

>drew an extra card off ponder after a mulligan

>whiffing on mana (casting spells he didn't have correct mana for)

>free casting submerge w/o a forest in play

>playing a deck where all the folk and vaults were foil, but the basics weren't.

>Brainstorming off Jace, and drawing 5, keeping 3. Essentially Recalling off Jace.

In the last instance (the Recall), he was caught and put on a three year ban, where he is banned until 2017.

Also it hurts me, and makes me physically ill, but thanks Drew Levin, your article on the subject made written this that much easier, I might still hate you, but with a small bit of respect.


 No.171983

File: 1442514261205-0.jpg (36.78 KB, 286x416, 11:16, Drew.JPG)

File: 1442514261206-1.jpg (35.67 KB, 306x570, 51:95, SIMP.JPG)

>>171958

>Drew Levin is an SJW

I wonder if hes fucking Qinn too


 No.171991

>>171983

I doubt it, look how thirsty he looks


 No.171995

>>171983

Can you check if any of these people have any ties with Srhbutts on Twitter.


 No.172003

>>171958

>playing a deck where all the folk and vaults were foil, but the basics weren't.

Not necessarily cheating. I mean, given everything else about the guy, it probably was, but there are no rules saying you can or can't play foils on certain types of cards, it's up to the judge to decide if you wanted to mark cards.

>>171472

>He has some merit, he did invent some pretty awesome decks, and he was the Quintessential Johnny of his day.

Oh, sure, but the guy is clearly a cheater and Maro dismissed it with shit like "it was a different time" and "people hyped him up as a bad guy, so he started doing it more".


 No.172008

>>172003

It's not cheating to use a mix of foils and non-foils. But I would be extremely suspicious of any one who did it to that degree. That's marked cards territory.


 No.172014

>>172008

>>172003

Only reason I put it like that. If it was mixed matched a bit, and anyone else, I'd probably not think twice.

>>172003

Also totally agreed, MaRo shills him so hard you'd think he'd gotten a reach around.


 No.172035

>>171995

Qinn and Nyberg follow each other that the closet it gets


 No.172037

>>172035

Oh you mean the people on qinns page

a whole lot of them really


 No.172060


 No.172157

>>172060

> We know stores like Star City Games retain a lot of product, and exert a huge influence on the Magic secondary market; even to the extent of being able to manipulate it.

For example they invent formats like Tiny Leaders. Anyone else notice the only people shilling that shit were people who sold cards?


 No.172170

>>171983

I sure hope so. Ever since she released her nudes I've been jacking off imagining her desperately blowing some guys to get attention for her emo game, then crying and cutting herself afterward.


 No.172172

File: 1442530733664.jpg (25.76 KB, 284x395, 284:395, 10390047_10153461845524577….jpg)

>>171958

>In a game between Levin and Bertonici, Alex Bertonici player a Merrow Reejey with Aether Vial, and swung with all. Drew pointed out that Reejer just came into play, and made a judge call, despite a 'we cool, we don't need a judge between friends, we'll just back up". Judge comes, issues a warning, and Alex asked if it can be downgraded to a caution (warnings go on your record, cautions don't).

Are you fucking serious? I've accidentally swung all before just not paying attention. Is this like that hand-move rule in "elite" chess that just makes everyone think chess players are pretentious cunts?


 No.172173

>>172170

>>172172

Fuck off tripp, I might be a part time namefag, but at least I'm not a tripp.

I think it's because he was already suspicious. I wouldn't of called a judge, but alas, I'm told I'm way to lenient.


 No.172260

>>172173

>I might be a part time namefag,

That's even more pathetic than me, to be honest.


 No.172274

>>172260

Sometimes my name is necessary, such as when determining a new board owner.

However, I only utilize it, such as now, when it's necessary to the discussion.

Please, tell me, how does having a tripp support the conversation in any way?


 No.172278

>>172274

Every time you respond to him it is like giving him a land drop so he can cast further shitposting tripfaggotry.


 No.172279

>>172278

I suppose your right


 No.172325

>>172172

Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, anon. And yes in high level tournaments you enforce them harder because there's more on the line when people get ahead by breaking the rules.

The hand-move rule also exists so that you don't have people playing a move then gauging their opponent's reaction to immediately undo it and consider something better. Chess players aren't poker players.


 No.172390

File: 1442552010526.jpg (8.51 KB, 248x233, 248:233, Smug anime face.jpg)

>>172260

>>172172

In high level events with a notorious cheater I think it was a solid decision.

Besides at casual events there's more leniency because your might only play once a week,

where as pro's deck test like crazy until they can play the deck like clock work.

Just like my Phage EDH deck.


 No.172512

>>171333

Excellent piece of material and nice idea for a thread OP, well done. Mike Long is an fascinating fellow and his bluff should be told to every aspiring pro player since it's both extremely entertaining while also providing them with a cautionary tale of possible interactions with other pro players. The lesson here is to always let a person play through his plays, unless you're 100% certain they have the win.

Check out the differences in concession between these two games:

https://youtu.be/xZorp03qJuU#t=14m05s

https://youtu.be/mXll9jNCtuw#t=15m30s

Perhaps Chris Andersen thought his life total was different, but if he lets the opponent attack he may have realized that the game was not lost after all…

Olle Rade displayed some great patience, and even though he got topdecked and probably had played against the same combodeck a numberable of times, he encouraged his opponent to play through the combo, for a couple of reasons. First, to make sure his opponent really had the win, secondly to observe the combo-process and the deck to spot any form of weaknesses or differences in the deck choices, and thirdly to remind himself what cards the combo consists of.


 No.172518

It would be nice if we could gather a few videos of different cheats/non-professional plays, in order to set a standard of what acts are suspicious and which ones aren't.

In the same video with Olle Rade, one can clearly see a Felipe Valdivia pick up his scryland in his opponents end step and replay it the next turn to get a free scry:

https://youtu.be/xZorp03qJuU#t=30m45s

Brad Nelson fetching a ghost quarter-incident:

https://youtu.be/Dt06sO4op3c#t=02m56s

Patrick Chapin playing two lands in the same turn as well as accidentely "drawing" a card he should've revealed:

https://youtu.be/xkcaRUEO9sM#t=13m00s

Playing two lands in a turn is a real advantages, no matter when you do it. In my opinion it should be a game loss-offence (if it already isn't), because the solution is often easy and not hard to control. When unsure, always ask if you already played a land this turn or not.

And this happened last weekend (be very observant)

https://youtu.be/ua8nvtyZIZ0#t=18m45s

What's interesting and suspicious (other than the obvious cheat ) is how often Stephen Archorn adjustices his library and how ignorant his opponent is to it, I didn't notice any evident cheat, but at certain times it feels like he knows his top card even though he has no Courser in play.

The main reason these guys were "caught" was that they played on camera, in front of hundreds/thousands of observant viewers who managed to snap up the changes in board states and in some cases told the head judge about it (and thereby rightly getting the player disqualified).

Always be aware of the number and the type of lands your opponent has in play, and if he/she plays with them in an unorganized sloppy way, then pay extra attention every time they move/tap their lands, specially if they try to disguise/protect it by "resting their hands on their lands".


 No.172525

File: 1442572462403-0.jpg (34.97 KB, 400x243, 400:243, levin 1.jpg)

File: 1442572462403-1.png (63.64 KB, 400x300, 4:3, jesse.png)

File: 1442572462403-2.jpg (93.74 KB, 255x235, 51:47, what a tooll.jpg)

>>172512

Thanks, you should check out my first thread, it's in page 5 I think.

Also I'm always surprised no one ever brings up the bluff story when talking about him. I think it's more important then Long.dec at the very least when mentioning him.

>>171958

Now, while we are on the subject, let's talk about Drew Levin. Drew Levin is an employee and article writer for SCG, he is also a sjw and 'pro player'. He has a sometime now beef with Alex Bertonici.

Now I documented the issue of him getting Zack Jesse banned, so here is come green text

>Loses to Jesse in a casual game on MtGO

>Gets into argument w/

>gets BTFO

>Buttmad

>Buttdevastated

>decided to research

>find decade old sexual assault case

>decides to wait until moment is right, tells Twitter about it during major event

>Zach Jesse is banned, his MtGO account frozen.

>Levin hides from Twitter and installs GG blocklist.

Yes, this really happened. However, this is only the start of the Levin train.

In 2010, player Craig Wescoe lost 2:0 in a game to Drew Levin. Before the ceremonial handshake happened, Levin made the comment "“[A friend] laid me on 50-to-1 for the Grand Prix and I took him on for $10.” Hearing this, an unsure what to do, Craig reported it, since in pro-play, gambling in any form is a ban-able offense.

The judge ruling took over an hour, forcing the entire tournament on hold, which ended with Mr. Levin being banned from the GP.

Defenders of Levin claim that Craig simply did this to get ahead in the tournament (he made top 8, and won the match), while others claim that Levin was in the wrong. After several months of shit slinging from SCG, Craig posted an official apology on SCGs of all places.

Now there is plenty of more instances of warnings and DQ's of Mr. Levin, however, I can't find any reliable sources. Most of these seem to be less with cheating, and more with general conduct of the game and the people that play it.

>>172518

I can't be arsed, but you are more then welcome too.


 No.172544

File: 1442578170706.jpg (49.45 KB, 500x590, 50:59, 1426620829257.jpg)

how did we go from cheating in m:tg to zoe queen?


 No.172556

>>171983

The possibility exists, when Quinn broke up with Gionji she was at 90+

>>172544

She comes around.


 No.172584

>>172544

Because it's the same people doing the same things, anon. It's always the same people.


 No.172627

>>172512

You'd be surprised how many people lose when you make them play out their combo because they netdecked some convoluted combo and don't actually know how to execute it perfectly. They just expect you to scoop when they get it going.


 No.172664

>>172279

* you're


 No.172680

>>172627

a lot of those combos get reposted by people who don't know exactly how they work either.

If a combo is larger than three pieces, the chances of it's player actually knowing how it works drops proportionally to the size of the combo.


 No.173293


 No.173298

>>172627

>opponent tries to storm off

>Ad Nauseam draw like 20

>plays LED

>realizes he has no mana floating

>dies to Emrakul

felt pretty good, not gonna lie


 No.173777

So, I'm at a loss, who should I write about next?


 No.173826


 No.173853

>>173826

Two spoiled white hipsters wanted to feel like they were helping the world, so they put together a pretentious little convention with a stupid name, but only sold 1000 tickets at $500 a pop.

Not to be left out as the rest of pop culture and tech moved on without their elitist bullshit, they started "curating" equally pretentious board games and non-games to show off at their shitty little gathering of mostly white guys who love to whinge about diversity.


 No.173857

>>173853

I agree 100% with you but you aren't in the BO thread so check that namefagging dude.


 No.173858

>>173857

Accidentally left it on. Noticed too late to remove it.


 No.174108

>>173777

We all know Deck Feyden is the biggest thief in the multiverse, but who's biggest in our magic world?

DSL (David Simone-Levi)?


 No.174704

>>173826

Holy fuck, MtG was at XOXOfest?!


 No.174867

Up next!

Shark: MaRo: The First SJW?


 No.174909

>>174704

Not really a bunch of shitty hipster games a Pants up don't loot game even

They did however have Burch and Wesley show up in Magic


 No.175632

File: 1443032901639-0.jpg (250.83 KB, 620x350, 62:35, maro rosanne.jpg)

File: 1443032901640-1.jpg (135.49 KB, 640x1136, 40:71, Rosewater.jpg)

File: 1443032901640-2.jpg (61.54 KB, 511x356, 511:356, breed.jpg)

File: 1443032901640-3.png (450.05 KB, 656x529, 656:529, eidolon.png)

File: 1443032901640-4.jpg (64.88 KB, 599x421, 599:421, cucking.jpg)

Mark Rosewater… where do I even begin.

I guess I'll start with the title. Why did I choose "the first SJW?" Some of you may be yelling "Anon! They been around since the 60's!" Others may be yelling "Blackblade you faggot! The term comes from a theologian". Well, let me calm you, I meant "The First SJW in /tg/."

Let me start at the beginning, Mark Rosewater (MaRo), was born in 1967, to a jewish family, in the deep south of Mississippi, before the family moved to Pepper Pike, Ohio. At that time, it was a small rural community, and MaRo was described best as a social outcast. It didn't help as a child, he was particularly timid, tiny and weak. However, as was the par at the time, he instead excelled academically, and would go to Boston where he would get a B.A. in Communications.

Now, remember that part about the first sjw? As many of you probably still remember, it was found that most indie developers took into game design, not due to a passion of gaming, but because they couldn't excel in other fields, and they viewed it as the bottom of the barrel.

Mark Rosewater went to Hollywood with the big dreams of making it as a writer. He soon became a gopher, where he ran around doing other peoples work, a common job in Hollywood actually, to the point some gophers have gophers.

He at some point got hired to be a writer for Roseanne, in which he is credited by being the driving force behind two episodes "Vegas, vegas", and "Take my bike…. please". Roseanne was a show that has a whole encyclopedia of back room drama and infighting, so the reason why is up for debate, but he was laid off from the show (a common *chan legend is it was for being too Jewish).

Out of work, he went back to his youth profession, being a magician, and working at a game store that would be later bought out by WotC to become an official WotC store.

One day, while bored, some kids walked in and asked if they had any Magic cards. This, with his history in Magic, piqued his interest, and he would end up buying several boxes of Alpha when he found them being sold (He once showed up the morning Legends was released, and while he opened most of the boxes, he kept several sealed to sell at a later time).

The Duelist was released, and he was disappointed, he wrote a letter to Kathryn Haines, Editor in Chief at the time. When they didn't write back, he called, and said his puzzle "Puzzle the Gathering" was printed.

He lost and was eliminated (it was single elimination that year), and met with Kathryn Haines. It was decided like that, he would write about Worlds. I won't bore you with the details on that. He would continue to write articles and "The Puzzling", and eventually design.

He headed the following expansions: Tempest, Urza's Destiny (he also invented the free mechanic), Odyssey, Ravnica, Mirrodin (Designed Affinity), Shadowmoor/Eventide, Zendikar, Scars, Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Gate Crash, Dragon Maze, and Theros.

He's a person of many controversial decisions, he's designed more banned cards then Richard "I designed Alpha and Library of Alexandria" Garfield, and he believes bad cards need to exist to make good cards look better, the color pie needs to constantly change, Mythic rares are a necessity, and Pro level game play is a must have feature of games.

He's notorious for hating the mechanics of Land Destruction, Counterspells, tempo strategies. He does like Combo, unlike another notable designer.

He also invented "Timmy" "Johnny" and "Spike". He identifies as a Johnny.

Now, remember earlier when I called him the first SJW, this is my logic. His blog show's he's incredibly progressive, despite being literally everything the far left would hate. With the exception of the free mechanic, he feels he can do no wrong, and in his ride to work podcast, he will often say stuff like "It's me who lets you play with such awesome cards!". He hates Kamigawa because he literally had nothing to do w/ the block, and has mused that he could go back to it some day jus to destroy the setting by having Bolas eat it. He has insisted the color pie mutating well passed the point of memetic is a good thing, even though many would insist the opposite. He has designed numerous mistakes that have almost killed the game twice, yet insists he's just that awesome. He deliberately pushed the power of the poison mechanic because he always wanted to win via poison counters.

In this, I feel, while he certainly loves M:tG, he feels ultimately it's beneath him, just like Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn feel Vidya is beneath them. However, unlike them, he has enough foresight and common sense to know not to try and insult his entire fan base (though some are still hoping he will). He also, unlike them, has a sense of humor (he did design the Un-sets), so is he the first SJW, you decide!

>him circa 1990

>his avatar

>An actual quote

>Him not knowing what Eidolon does.

>Progressive Joke from "Tales from the Pit"


 No.175636

File: 1443033478540.jpg (25.16 KB, 255x254, 255:254, 1438848508182.jpg)

>>175632

I could make a cheap Jew/Pol is always right joke but MaRo frankly depresses me too much to do so. This guy is the cancer killing MtG and I hate his stupid smug face much more than I should hate a game designer whom I have never met.


 No.175642

File: 1443034613716.jpg (81.47 KB, 840x623, 120:89, 1414033918929.jpg)

>>175632

>He headed the following expansions: Tempest, Urza's Destiny (he also invented the free mechanic), Odyssey, Ravnica, Mirrodin (Designed Affinity), Shadowmoor/Eventide, Zendikar, Scars, Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Gate Crash, Dragon Maze, and Theros.

Whatever else the guys is… with a few exceptions those are among the best sets in MtG.


 No.175684

>>175642

>Urza block

>Mirrodin

Nearly broke the game compared to what came before it.

>Shadowmoor/Eveningtide

>Theros

>DA

Utter shit

The other sets are pretty based though.


 No.175693

>>175684

>Nearly broke the game compared to what came before it.

A broken set is much better than a bland set or a weak set. It can be fixed with some bans, shit set is shit forever. Urza and Mirrodin have tons of great cards played to this day.


 No.175738

>>175632

>He hates Kamigawa because he literally had nothing to do w/ the block

Maybe that's the reason it's one of my favorites.


 No.175921

>>175693

Did you play when Urza's block or Mirrodin were first released? They were both clusterfucks and in the mind of anyone who knows the game well, unmitigated disasters mechanically. Kamigawa was a great block even though it was weak, Masques was as well, even though it was pretty low power level.


 No.175941

>>175921

Can't really comment on Urza when it released because I was only starting, but Mirrodin just had a problem with a couple badly designed overpowered cards (Skullclamp and artifact lands mostly), it wasn't an "unmitigated disasters mechanically" in any way. I'll take another Mirrodin or Urza over another Kamigawa or Masques every time.

>Kamigawa was a great block

>Masques was as well

No, they were not. They're remembered as the worst blocks in MtG history for good reason (though Masques had some nice cards, even if the block was crap as a whole).


 No.175947

>>175941

Worst blocks? Motherfucker have you heard of Homelands?


 No.175951

File: 1443083975639.png (8.13 KB, 150x150, 1:1, 1428692563632.png)

>>175947

Have you heard of blocks? Homelands isn't one.


 No.176037

>>175951

Homelands for most of MTG's history was part of the Ice Age block.

Also Homelands isn't any worst then any other set at the time, and in my opinion, has aged better then most.

>>175941

>I've done Kamigawa to Death

I haven't done Masques though. Masques had a lot of fan fair, along w/ Nemesis, and too a lesser extent Prophecy. The problem with the block is, while people remember Caw/Blade, and Affinity, they never remember the power house that was Rebels.

Lin Siivi was banned in type 2, type 1.x, and Limited. Not many creatures have been banned in M:tG history.

Also, while the tournament players might have disliked it, it was a casual player's favorite. Talk to anyone who played at the time (still play, or left), and they will tell you how flavorful the rhystic mechanic was, and how awesome the Avatar's were.


 No.176041

>>175947

Official block-rank (based upon the following criteria: playable cards, story, mechanics, artstyle, metaplay):

1. Time Spiral

2. Invasion

3. Innistrad

4. Tempest

5. Ravnica

6. Tarkir

7. Mirage

8. Odyssey

9. Zendikar

10. Ice Age

11. Urza

12. Lorwyn

13. Theros

14. Onslaught

15. Shadowmoor

16. Mercadian Mascques

17. Return to Ravnica

18. Kamigawa

19. Mirrodin

20. Battle for Zendikar

21. Scars of Mirrodin

(List found on reddit, as voted by the public)


 No.176046

>>176037

Ice Age was a good block though (for its time, it was the first block after all). Kamigawa and Masques came out many years later and between much more popular and powerful blocks and a lot of hate for them originates from that.

Also Homelands being part of Ice Age block never made any fucking sense, it's not connected by story, mechanics or anything, they just did that to have a 3-set block like every other that came afterwards.


 No.176087

>>175632

>he worked on shadowmoor/eventide and not lorwyn/morningtide

man no wonder that halfblock was so shit, and why the world ended up turning to ass. he probably viewed the lorwyn world lke he viewed the kamigawa world and had to forever taint it with his jew smudge.


 No.176142

>>176041

>reddit

>Tarkir in the top 10

Why didn't you just disregard it at that point? Mirrodin was one of the cooler blocks flavor-wise, so it should be higher in that regard. Also, why the hell is Onslaught so low?


 No.176152

>>176041

>Invasion second

>Tarkir in top 10

>Urza's in 11

>Scars last

Just proof reddit is shit.

Also

>reddit

>Where do you think we are?

>>176046

I didn't, but its an interesting factoid


 No.176159

>>176142

>>176152

At least they got Time Spiral right. Then NWO came in and fucked everyone's shit.

>Innistrad

Amazing first set, the rest of the block fell flat. Damn shame.

>>176037

>banned in Limited

I'm assuming you mean block constructed.


 No.176237

>>176159

No it was banned in limited at the time as well. You could draft it, but it couldn't be put in your deck.

It wasn't the first card banned in limited though.


 No.176265

>>176041

There is a lot wrong with that list but the one that surprises me the most is Onslaught being so low.


 No.176276

>>176041

They got Time Spiral right, but holy shit, Tarkir above Mirage. Are you trying to tickle my funny bone right now?


 No.176289

>>176041

Anyone who cites Leddit as a source is an idiot.


 No.176327

>>176237

>It wasn't the first card banned in limited though.

How does that even happen.


 No.176333

>>176327

Do you know what Lin Siivi does?

Basically you draft her, you win.


 No.176466

>>176333

So, like Pack Rat?


 No.176473

>>176466

Exactly like Pack Rat. They would never enforce a ban in limited these days though, that would expect the players to keep up w/ the rules, and we can't have that now.


 No.176604

>>176142

>>176152

>>176276

What is so bad with Tarkir?

It had awesome dragons, sweet fetches and some supernice delve-cards, aaand the best standard ever (or at least in alooong time).


 No.176626

>>176604

I don't know, Tarkir was good. Fetches, morph, delve, good limited, strong constructed. Some art was kinda shit, but overall it wasn't too bad.


 No.176685

>>176604

Kahns of tmblr?


 No.176723

>>176685

Pretty much this. I liked the block as a whole, but they shilled their "trans legendary" so hard that it left a bad taste in my mouth.


 No.176770

File: 1443226057067.png (118.75 KB, 223x311, 223:311, khansg.png)

>>176626

>Some art was kinda shit

I'll give it that much - it had the first basic land art in a long time that hasn't had me cherry-picking older, better-looking things to stuff in a deck.


 No.177012

>>176604

The obvious tumblr pandering, the only good fluff was from the first set, after that it was boring and shit. There were some playables, sure, but that doesn't redeem an otherwise shitty block.

>>176626

>Some of the art was kinda shit

This too

>>176604

Standard right now is just Siege Rhino, and will continue to be siege rhino. It's won 2 of the last 3 standard pro tours, and the deck that won DTK was good for like a week.


 No.177016

>>176604

I agree w/ this.

But man, did they botch an awesome world for Tumblr.

>>176723

Alesha, Who Requires Therapy

Anyway everyone! Up Next!

>Shark: Star City Games, the final boss of MtG.


 No.177198

>>176604

Khans was amazing, especially for drafting.

Fate less so, but it was salved with FKK drafts. Manifest was a stupid mechanic and nothing else was new or even well done.

Dragons was just fucking awful and megamorph is a dumb "mechanic" which is just morph with extra shit tacked on. An overall uninspiring set especially after Khans being so good.

And they completely fucked the lore. Not like lore is something they've been good at for years, but the world had potential and then went absolutely nowhere. A shitty time travel plot turning into "oh it was just a dream"? Stupid.


 No.177259

File: 1443339949671.jpg (58.57 KB, 640x480, 4:3, 1393748974875.jpg)

>>177198

>megamorph is a dumb "mechanic" which is just morph with extra shit tacked on

And there's so little that takes advantage of it! Where are the triggered abilities once you megamorph that creature? Where are the enchantments/creatures that blow you for morphing creatures multiple times?

Pic related: even these fucks know more about morphing than Whizzards.


 No.177301

File: 1443345847512.jpg (87.03 KB, 800x800, 1:1, 1362804629415.jpg)

>>177259

>morphing creatures multiple times

*morphing multiple creatures


 No.177709

>>177016

Finding info on SCG's is fucking hard.


 No.177966

Yo Magic shit talker.

Not sure if you've been made aware but Channel fireball pulled some unethical shit with the latest set released. Paulo (who is a cunt) wrote a bad review of the set, it got published and then was quickly backdated (by an editor, so likely LSV). Then once it was off the front page, it had the date corrected to put it back into it's correct position in the timeline.

People pointed out this is unethical and suspicious, but Channelfireball have basically hand waved it and said "it's fixed now" as if it doesn't show a clear conflict of interest between selling shit and hiding bad reviews of it from the front page.


 No.177972

>>177966

Can I get an archive to both articles?


 No.177973

>>177966

Also, can I get it sauce?


 No.177974

>>177972

No archive was caught but heres the Reddit post.

red*dit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3m2ltv/channel_fireball_buries_article_critical_of/


 No.178049

>>177966

Well then, people just have to make as big a noise as possible about it.

Gather evidence, then go after it relentlessly.


 No.178098

File: 1443538277364-0.jpg (72.28 KB, 312x445, 312:445, dead drop.jpg)

File: 1443538277364-1.jpg (72.84 KB, 312x445, 312:445, death frenzy.jpg)

>>176604

You sound like a faggot, a shill, and a redditor, but I'll humour you and explain why you're wrong.

So KTK drops and it's fucking great. The wedge theme is actually a nice take on colour combinations we haven't seen since invasion, and it gives them some sweet flavour stuff. The Abzan are vaguely Ottoman guys who roll around the desert in Great Houses like they're straight out of Dune. It's fucking awesome. The Sultai are this group of snake people who have an entire subculture based around being evil to one another and feeding their subordinates to crocodiles.

Seriously, look at pics related. I really have to give Wizards a hand for designing KTK because it had great flavour which worked well in the gameplay. The limited environment was SUPER slow and bridged the gap very well between old school "creatures suck, we like our games slow and boring" Magic and new school "Topan Freeblade totally deserves to be at common" Magic. (For the record, I don't actually think creatures sucked in the old days as much as they used to, but that's another topic. I also started playing in Theros, so I can't speak from experience.)

The limited environment was amazing, because you had basically every kind of archetype available, and they were mostly all viable.

>Abzan wants to play creatures, stall up the board, and win through Outlast

>Sultai wants to make trades, then power out an efficient delve creature or two and win in the mid-late game through whatever's left on the board

>Temur wants to accelerate into big things that outclass the opponents' creatures in the early-mid game, backed up by a handful of tempo cards

>Jeskai plays delver, and can sometimes recur nonland cards from the graveyard; Prowess is also a great mechanic for bluffing

>Mardu plays balls to the wall aggro featuring Valley Dasher and winning games through Trumpet Blast/Arrow Storm

Abzan was the clear winner because it had the best common and uncommon payoff cards, but even something like Mardu was perfectly playable. When the format slows down like that (even to the point where there are legitimate five colour goodstuff decks), playing a Valley Dasher on turn two is magnified because your opponent isn't doing anything on turn two except playing a tapland. There was also a LOT of good, playable removal at common, which meant hard control decks could exist as well, and games were more interactive. A great format to play both draft and sealed.

Then along comes FRF, and while the common and uncommon cards are cool, the power disparity between cards is just too much. Citadel Siege is just almost strictly unbeatable in limited, as is elite Scaleguard. Aside from that, most of the three-colour archetypes from KTK become weaker because they lose a pack of fixing and payoff cards. Manifest doesn't really do anything unique (except for being a rules headache). About the only thing to come out of FRF was Dash, which Wizards really shouldn't be afraid to make evergreen or reprint sometime. It led to a lot of interesting gameplay, but I legitimately wouldn't be surprised if they canned it because MUH CREATURES AREN'T STAYING ON THE BOARD

DTK was shit.

>It had awesome dragons

Four of the bajillion dragons have seen any play. The rest are forgettable. If you're seriously so retarded that a creature type is enough to sell you on a set, kill yourself.

DTK ruined everything that was good about KTK (and even FKK) limited. The dominant strategy became red-based aggro, and the common creatures were so stupidly good (and the noncreature spells so bad) that if you weren't playing red, you could be certain you would lose to red at some point. Megamorph was creatively bankrupt and unplayable in limited because you had to dump eight mana into a creature that died to Sarkhan's Rage or traded for one of the enemy's infinite supply of bears and pikers.

>aaand the best standard ever (or at least in alooong time).

>aaand

>alooong time

Please kill yourself.

KTK standard was great, I'll give you that, but the longer it went on the more dominant Abzan became, and the more fringe non-Abzan decks became. Temur aggro is dead. Jeskai aggro was dead for a long time. Esper dragons is almost completely dead.


 No.178099

>>175632

>Timmy, Johnny, Spike

Your next post should be about Wizards shoehorning "progressive" shit into MTG. Alesha, Narset, and the recent female pronouns for the player archetypes. Shooting fish in a barrel, maybe, but it still deserves to be spoken about because of how retarded the decisions were.

>>177709

You could also talk about how ScarcityGames handled Megan Wolff's and Jim Davis's articles about women in Magic, and admitted to the world they were cowardly cucks who were A-Okay with cronyism and the like. You remember that shitshow, right?


 No.178138

>>178099

I did that in the last thread. Though, I didn't get into the player archtypes.

However, I might have to go small w/ SCG, writing an article about them would be like writing a comprehensive list of human rights violations in the complete history of China.


 No.178142

>>178098

Basically what this anon said. Sure, there were some power houses, I remember at a GPT, I lost my only game to a guy who pulled two ponyback brigades, two mardu charms, and Sharkan.

Along w/ Craters Claw, shit was based.


 No.178286

>>178099

Wait, really?


 No.178357

>>178099

That pisses me off! Seriously?! It pisses me off!

IS it still down?!


 No.178372

>>178098

The only real problem with the KTK limited environment was fetches.

So when there's a rare card in the draft, a card that will literally never lose value the question comes:

"Do I take the card that may win me the draft, or the card that will always have value and will help me build decks later."

It may just be one pick, but it can seriously screw up the draft if there's something like a charm left in the pack.

I don't hate people who make the value pick though. A foil fetch made my fucking EDH deck, and the rest of the fetches I got finally made Modern affordable.

And of course along come fetches to fuck up every couple of drafts once again.


 No.178375

>>178372

I don't play Magic any more but I actually liked that because it allowed shittier plays to "win" the draft without having to actually win it. It means they get stronger standard decks or more incentive to keep drafting.

No single card will fuck up a draft unless you're drafting with idiots. I don't know the format, but lets assume you open a fetch and a very good uncommon. All I know is that you took a rare, I don't know what rare as rares are fucking rares, so if I pass you the super good uncommon it shouldn't send you any signals on it's own.

Pack 1 : I know what colours you're likely to go into if I pass you that uncommon, so I make a mental note.

Pack 2 : I have no way to stop the person from cutting me off pack 3, so I'm not moving in on this signal, it just lets me know what the person is playing.

Pack 3 : Your deck should already be cemented after 2 packs and you're looking for another bomb and to fill in the gaps in your deck.

As I said, I don't know the format, but I'm guessing what you actually experienced was domain drafting fucking you. In Shards block if everyone drafted a shard it worked well, people found decks and everyone got a decent enough deck. If any one at the table drafted 5 colour it just collapses, everyone ends up with a shitty deck that hardly functions or one guy gets a godly deck and everyone else gets shit.

So while I don't know the format, any one who thinks a single rare can fuck up signaling has no idea how to draft. You should be taking notice of what overall gets passed to you not any single card, because you have no idea if there was a foil version in the pack or if they opened the best mythic rare in the set and windmill slammed it.


 No.178472

>>178375

I am ALWAYS that guy.

It helps me win drafts.

Note: I haven't drafted since Innistrad, with the exception of Conspiracy and a 2 headed at Origins.


 No.178474

>>178472

The problem is it's an all or nothing tactic, either it pays off big or it completely fucks everything and games come down to "who draws their 3 playable cards"


 No.178489

>>178474

It is what it is


 No.179486

OP Bump!


 No.180469

>>175632

While many things have been done behind closed door, no company has ever done right out in the open as SCG's.

(Editors note: Finding reliable information on SCG is hard!).

Starting in the ruins of the .com boom, Scarcity Games started off as just another M:tG site/store, much like TCGPlayer, MagicParadise (R.I.P), and many others. However, this wouldn't last.

In early 2004, WotC changed the way the Eternal Formats works. Type 1 was changed to Vintage, and Type 1.5 became Legacy, with ban changes. Naturally, Legacy (or Type 1.5) was a format with little popularity, and was mostly in the shadow of Type 1.x (Extended), Type 2 (Standard), or Type 1.

The founders of SCG's decided to host a event for prizes, including duels, for the new format legacy. It proved to be fairly popular, and profitable. So they did something no shop had ever done before, they rose the buy prices of dual lands by 200%, and naturally everyone sold to them. It's believed in the next year, they managed to get 30% of duals ever printed, which gave them considerable sway over the price of these cards.

They then increased the price of the card in a way that would make GW scratch there head, and continued to shill there legacy events.

Now the strange thing about it, that should be noted was, WotC from early on would report the events of SCG's. It should be noted, since countless other events remained reportless.

SCG has done this for numerous other cards until this day and age. In fact, with the recent artificial price increase of Jace, Vry's Prodigy shows the artificiality of price increases of these days. Since it's not four of in any deck.

They''ve also been notoriously SJW, but you can read that in this thread.


 No.180623

>>180469

A million duals….

That is a lot!


 No.180638

>>180623

Yes it is, and it's only scraping the rabbit hole.


 No.180647

>>180638

More like Rabbi hole

Is Starcity covered because they're the only people who run legacy events?

You might want to look into GGs live as well. They started out as fans doing live coverage and then got rolled into Wizards officially.

Which they then went and hired a full other team of presenters (has the limited resources been proven to be a pedo yet? I'm 90% sure dude's a pedo from the way he acts and looks) and put all the GGs live people off camera as worker monkeys.


 No.180653

File: 1444234286615.jpg (72.88 KB, 650x427, 650:427, image.jpg)

>>172274

>Less pathetic than a trip

>Blackblade of all people.


 No.180666

>>180653

I see someone has turned off their tripp.

Good for you!


 No.180704

>>180647

That Sutcliffe guy? I haven't heard anything about that


 No.180706

>>172260

this nigga's like Herman von Strab.

Certainly one of the biggest wastes of human flesh to be born in the last 500 years


 No.180728

File: 1444253042850.jpg (29.52 KB, 352x272, 22:17, Poirot3.jpg)

Maybe you guys can answer me something. What happened to that ChannelFireball guy who used to run the youtube channel?

On the subject, we know why Evan Irwin got fired?


 No.180794

>>180728

He quit to work on his show full time. That's the official story at least. I doubt they'd let Brad continue to work with him if he was fired.


 No.180847

>>171333

OP. I use those same doodoo brown sleeves for my AtogAtog EDH deck.

I call it a brick shat forthwith.


 No.180848

>>178375

Nothing is more fun than hatedrafting.

I keep a hater pile each draft; and though I may not win, someone's not getting a fetchland or some other nasty shit I don't want to see played.


 No.180874

>>172518

An incident of suspicious behaviour happened during the SCG Open this weekend:

Ali Aintrazi got caught playing two lands on the same turn, as well as tappening a "sick" Hangarback Walker at his opponents end step. A couple of turns earlier he had stopped his opponent from doing the same mistake and tried to play two lands in a turn.

https://youtu.be/AEiTTuCRFAk#27m24s

(The cheat happens at 30:30 in the video)

To add to this he played the wrong tronland (even though he had the "right" one, an Urza's Mine, in his hand) in the semifinal of the Invitational he won:

https://youtu.be/HEhLpPmBSls#t=25m30s

His response:

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3nct7n/til_hangarback_walker_has_haste/cvndunq

Even though I think he's innocent I still view this as a strike two, since his sloppy play has caused some unwanted scenarios and leads to real cheaters adopting it as an excuse. If you're getting caught on camera twice you better improve your act by eliminating the sloppyness that leads to such mistakes or man up and face the consequences of being labeled as a cheater.


 No.180937

>>180874

I shall check it out!


 No.181148

>>180728

Which guy? The fat guy? He got accused of stealing cards, police were called and shit. Basically they found an ebay account linked to his name and cards were going missing and matching up to shit being sold on Ebay accordingly.

>>180848

Only hate draft if there is nothing playable in the deck for you. The only exception is if you open an unbeatable card, like it's THE best card in the set and whoever plays it will just auto win, then take it and splash it.

Hate drafting effects 1 player who you may never even face. And you want other decks to be reasonable playable because if you have an uber deck in the pool you don't want it to stomp everything unless you're playing it. That card you hate drafted maybe the difference between the uber deck being at the top table and the 2nd table. If you're a good player you want everyone to have playable decks worse than yours, which means you have to draft a good deck not knee cap theres.


 No.181158

>>181148

You're assuming I play drafts to win. I play drafts for the shenanigans. For the "why did you draft twelve lightning bolts" in M10 kind of bullshittery that can only happen in a sealed draft.


 No.181159

>>180874

I've never understood how anyone gets away with cheating in magic. Unless they're really good at slight of hand; and even then, why are you not watching your opponents every fucking move!?

I've been to two PTQs; I've never been cheated nor have I ever even thought of cheating…


 No.181177

>>181159

>I've never understood how anyone gets away with cheating in magic.

Lots of people are too concentrated on the board state to notice. Also most cheating isn't too blatant: putting lands in random piles and taping for mana they don't have, playing two lands on turn 8, trying to block illegally. Things they know they can get away with as honest mistakes if they're caught once, if they're not they will continue to cheat in the match. I played a guy like this on GP, I should've called a judge immediately, but I caught him twice before it: taping for colors he didn't have and trying to very quickly kill my multicolor creature with Ultimate Price.


 No.181178

>>172680

Johnny's Law of Inverse Executability.

The executablility of any combo deck approaches zero when the complexity of the combo required approaches one; increasing with each card added to the combo.


 No.181179

>>181177

Nice dubs. (Chequed)

But I guess it's because I played a paranoid style of magic from my old FNM days. We'd get farmed for points from net-deckers from out of town; so we ended up getting tournament tier rules on file. But our Judge was a real bro, so if you just got confused by something crazy happening (We had a lot of rogue players.) he'd explain the entire process.


 No.181181

>>176041

>>176276

Everyone loves Time Spiral. Sometimes I feel like WotC were spying on me after eighth when I complained that Magic sucked now and I wanted the old cards and flavor back.

Then; fucking Time Spiral happened.


 No.181199

File: 1444391093610.jpg (112.13 KB, 856x469, 856:469, tristan.jpg)

>>181148

Wait, What?

This fucker was stealing?!?!

And he only got fired?

Why is he not in jail?

People got arrested for fake selling stamps that were not as expensive as Magic cards. I'm pretty sure that he should be spending some time in beige overalls.


 No.181204

File: 1444391669216.jpg (211.72 KB, 1050x757, 1050:757, Mulldrifter.jpg)

>>181181

Time Spiral is popular for a couple of reasons that are not so obvious at first sight. Firts, it gave a lot of tools for decks that needed it Just think that the first black mass removal was in the set,

Other than that, there was a clear raise in the skill ceiling of the game. It started a mechanic that became absolutely perfect in Lorwyn, of creatures with activated abilities or enter the battlefield effects that are not only worst versions of instants or sorceries.

This allowed for some decks to be Control, but also have a fair chance against super aggressive decks, because they would also be dropping dudes on the table and trading.

Unfortunately, Maro is a little bitch and said that this was not good design, that made the game "too" hard to newer players or some other excuse.

I will miss Glen Elendra Archmages, Mulldrifters and Vensers, Shape Savants.


 No.181213

>>181199

He was accused, police were involved and he never had anything to do with CB after that. Both sides tell a different story and we don't know what is true and isn't.

>>181179

Net deckers from out of town? You sound like some dumb hick. I've played against cheaters and it can be very subtle. For example how they shuffle can be enough in draft. I've noticed someone shuffle and clearly put a card near the top.


 No.181214

>>181204

Mulldrifter is basically perfect card design for a control deck. No one looks at Mulldrifter and goes "That's not a fair card!" everyone goes "That's a good card" and moves on with their life.

Maro doesn't understand that some complexity is what encourages people to play the game. He's a super casual player and is more interested in targeting that market (which he doesn't understand either).

Take EDH design for example. All the cards Wizards prints for it are grossly overpowered and miserable to play against. When they design cards for EDH they're broken beyond belief or utterly useless. They never hit the right spot which is "powerful but not game warping because everyone will reanimate it". Shriekmore is a good example of a good multiplayer card, it's a 2 for 1 that is a useful tool to have in the graveyard but isn't going to be the only card people ever reanimate.


 No.181217

>>181204

That fish is magical


 No.181226

>>181213

In Indianapolis, there is a shop I use to go to regularly because of it's amazing stance against net deckers.

Nothing like a salty spike from Noblesville who goes 0-2 and drop after facing Rogue Tron, then Snake Control.


 No.182020

>>172390

Phage EDH works like clockwork? What are you on?


 No.183583

>>181226

Stance, elaborate?


 No.183612

What's the difference between a card that's good for constructed play and one for draft play? I understand that any given set has to have enough cards to form a game on their own, so there have to be some low-power cards as well as high-powered ones. So there has to be a balance between the cards in a set, but how do you balance out individual cards for this?


 No.183623

>>183612

>What's the difference between a card that's good for constructed play and one for draft play?

Limited is a much slower format, and as such, results in the best cards being what you'd expect - well costed, high power cards that are hard to deal with. Sweepers are good because board states often turn into each player having multiple creatures on the table, so they give you a great card advantage. Bigger creatures than your opponent can get to result in indirect card advantage through either chump blocking/unfavorable trades, or just a lot of damage going through. Basically, anything that gives you a better board state than the opponent is good in draft, unless you're doing very specific deck types. Because removal is harder to come by or more "restrictive" than in constructed decks, it usually means whoever has the stronger cards will win if it comes down to a slugfest.

Constructed is often much faster. I think a better way to look at it than speed is "immediacy". Most decks are either built to use good threats, or the opposite - having ways to deal with those threats. Red burn works because their power comes before other decks have the time to build up their manabases and push out stronger creatures that wall off red's attackers. Eidolon was good because it was a 2/2 that also had the immediate effect of causing the opponent's removal spells to burn himself. Thunderbreak Regent does that as well. Siege Rhino has been dominant for the last year not necessarily because it's a 4mana 4/5 trample - but because the instant you play it, there's a 6 point life swing. There are plenty of other 4 mana cards that beat it out in power/toughness, and plenty of spot removal to kill it, but even if your opponent instantly used Hero's Downfall on your rhino, you still came out ahead. Hangarback CAN be killed instantly, but most effects that remove it will still leave some thopters behind. If draft/sealed is about slowly building board state, constructed is about ABUSING board state, or more specifically finding ways to get around how board state "typically" works. And a large part of that revolves around removal, versus cards that resist removal. There are some exceptions of course, but that's how I view it.

>So there has to be a balance between the cards in a set, but how do you balance out individual cards for this?

I just started playing again in Khans after taking a break for years, so take it with a grain of salt. But Wizards is trying to balance sets largely around draft, since that's where a large portion of their revenue comes from. Unfortunately that often means some cards which are "good but not broken" in draft like Dig through time end up being so strong in other formats that they need to be banned - limited and constructed are such different games. And balancing within each set for draft is still a coin toss. Khans was great because it was so well balanced between the different clans and there were no "I drafted this bomb so I instantly win every single game" cards. Fate fucked it up with some of the dragons and Citadel Siege, and Dragons was just horribly balanced. Origins had some promise in the spoilers but ended up just being "who got the better creatures" leading to shit matches, and I'm uncertain on Zendikar at the moment.


 No.183873

>>183623

Also, Green has been getting shafted for the last 4 sets. It was the weakest color in Fate, Dragons, Origins, and BfZ


 No.184395

>>183873

After playing another draft tonight I completely agree with you. Green has one piece of removal while every other color has multiple, the ramp is a fucking joke, the color fixing is weak and almost entirely unnecessary, and their creatures aren't even that much stronger than other colors. I don't know why Wizards is so reluctant to give green enough power in what green SHOULD be strong in (ramp, creatures, fixing, trample, etc). But when the only removal they can "rely" on is fighting, which also requires them to have a stronger creature than the opponent, it fucking SUCKS to be outclassed without anything you can do about it in hand.

It's just awful trying to play green.


 No.184426

File: 1445135014897.jpg (35.89 KB, 600x500, 6:5, 1433523659378.jpg)

>>184395

>not having stronger creatures to remove opponents creatures in the first place

But I still kind of agree with you, and it's damn hilarious given that Whizzards aim to slow the pace down and make removal less potent because "no fun allowed", yet the "creature stronk" colour is actually getting shafted hardest.


 No.184592

>>184426

It's a long standing joke that Green has always been the worst color.

There is some truth behind that.


 No.184607

>>175632

There is one thing that will ALWAYS piss me off about MaRo, and it relates to Kamigawa (and his hatred of it).

You see, Kamigawa is actually two decent sets and one absolute stinker. Champions and Betrayers had the unfortunate job of following up from Mirrodin, and frankly I can think of few sets released since (probably Time Spiral block, INN/DKA and maybe RAV) that would have had a hope in hell of looking good next to the broken clusterfuck of (bad) awesomeness that was Mirrodin block. Magic fans had just gotten mindfucked (many out of the game in fact), and nothing was going to look great next to it in type 2. However, Champions and Betrayers were rather well designed sets, were fun in limited, actually fun in block (remember when they designed sets with block constructed somewhat in mind? Me neither) and actually had a decent power level once they were put beside Ravnica (from Greater Gifts to Ink-Eyes and everything in between).

Then MaRo takes over either lead design or development (it has been a long weekend, my apologies) in the middle of Saviors, declares it a lump of shit, completely changes the set (within what he claims he was able to do afterwards when he realised how shit his work had been on it) and pushes it to release. And guess what? Saviors limited IS SHIT. Saviors gave very little to block (it only had Enduring Ideal, Kataki, Crescent Moon, Ideas Unbound, Twincast, Death Denied, Maga, Jiwari, Owl, Mikokoro and Needle, and I am really pushing it for considering half of those cards notable), had disgustingly bad limited (especially sealed. Sealed put people on suicide watch), it was all in all a messy clusterfuck of a set. And guess what? MaRo seems to pretty much consider it the "best of a bad bunch", thinks that it did as close to "saving Kamigawa" as he could, and seems to believe that everyone who wants a return to Kamigawa want to because of Saviors giving them a good last impression.

MaRo fucked up Kamigawa beyond repair and then has the tenacity to blame everyone else. The parasitic mechanics COULD have worked if executed more successfully, and even if you argue they were limited design space (Arcane not so much, Bushido was a poor name choice unless they made Japanese planes a more constant thing) they were at least INTERESTING limited design space. Now we have Megamorph and Sunburst Converge to save us from horrible design space like Ogre/Demon relationship, tapping fellow wizards, you know, things you can't just put on a marketing poster and call a day (oh wait, Ninjitsu sells packs like hotcakes). I guess we should be happy though, because the Saviors team gave us such shit lovely mechanics as Sweep and Channel (which both could have been somewhat competent had they had a somewhat competent designer behind them).

Rant over I guess, I just hate that little fuck thinking that because he couldn't design a set that worked for his style, the entire world was shit and because the clique that he was in with and the segment of the market that he personally identified with didn't grok the block it had to be shit.


 No.184715

File: 1445199057626.jpg (37.64 KB, 419x305, 419:305, Cloudcrest Lake.jpg)

>>184607

Eh, I'd agree that Saviors was the worst, but Champions and Betrayers were pretty shit too. Which sucks, because I loved the art and the unique feel of the world, the entire block suffered just like Masques following Urza, it's power level was sacrificed to lower the power creep after a couple of broken sets, that's all.

Anyone who says people didn't like the set because it was too different is full of shit, people hated it because 99% of cards were complete trash, if it had switched places in development with Mirrodin or Ravnica it would have been a classic.


 No.184762

File: 1445205829152.png (1005.84 KB, 840x623, 120:89, 1444262835017.png)

>>184607

>Saviors limited IS SHIT

>and disgustingly bad limited (especially sealed. Sealed put people on suicide watch)

Oh god, you made me remember. Saviors prerealase was my first sealed event. I was playing some URB deck with random cards and not enough lands and I went 3-3 playing against equally great constructions. It was like magic special olympics or something.


 No.184778

File: 1445209494167.png (743.02 KB, 542x746, 271:373, blackcaster mage.png)

I'm just gonna leave this here, make of it what you will.


 No.184859

>>184778

>a happy go lucky Jamaican dude who uses the power of spicy Reggae beats to flash back spells

I know he's black probably due to progressive shit rather than revisiting Zhalfir, but I honestly don't have a problem with the design.


 No.184861

>>184778

> black probably due to progressive shit rather than revisiting Zhalfir

that annoys me greatly.

the original art was nicer, had it's own direction, this is literally just a black dude running while tripping out on lsd

also I fucking loved Zhalfir

>>a happy go lucky Jamaican dude who uses the power of spicy Reggae beats to flash back spells

he isn't killing enough people to do that.

seriously fuck Jamaica.

the countries a pile of high murder rate shit.


 No.184863

>>184859

Judging just by the art it looks like a green or red card.


 No.184933

File: 1445239665260.jpg (16.04 KB, 620x348, 155:87, oohoohahah.jpg)


 No.184943

Holy shit the new art for Snapcaster Mage is terrible. Would have been way better off giving it the Lili treatment and just slapping the new frame on the old art. Even though the old art isn't great, it was at the very least iconic.


 No.184944

File: 1445245567579.gif (37.81 KB, 210x206, 105:103, deejay-winpose1.gif)


 No.184968

>>184943

>just slapping the new frame on the old art

They can't do that due to legal reasons, I think - something to do with WotC's licence on the likenesses of the people the cards depict. That's why Solemn, Bob, and Finkel all got new art.


 No.184982

>>184778

>>184778

>>184861

Excapt this isn't what a Zhalfirian looks like.

Secondly, and I hate to tell you this, but Zhalfir was destroyed by an opps in Time Spiral.




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